FT Flyer XP-4C

by capt_ks | November 24, 2013 | (0) Posted in Projects

The Story

I bought the 3 pack Speed build kit a few months ago but haven't really done anything after a disappointing experience with the Nutball. Everytime I got the plane in the air, it would flip on its right side, and nose dive to the ground regardless of hand launching or taking-off from the ground.

I was fortunate to have a few AMA chartered clubs nearby. I joined one which had a member with experience flying FT planes. He took a look at the Nutball I built and noticed the wing was badly warped. The prognosis was that it would never fly straight. So, I decided I would give the FT Flyer a try since that's what he was flying and showed me its abilities. I was excited and couldn't wait to get started.

In the meantime, I was taking weekly lessons on a .40-size nitro trainer with a buddybox and an AMA certified R/C flight insructor, all a part of the club membership. This combined with many hours on Phoenix flight sim, I had become very comfortable with 4-channel flight. In fact, I had been doing inverted flight, knife-edges, etc on the flight sim for 2 years but was learning to fight the fear on the real thing!! It just ain't quite the same! 

 

The Reason

I finally finished the FT Flyer and took it to the field on a very windy afternoon to try it out. I knew it was way too windy to fly a plane like this, especially with my lack of experience! The maiden flight was scary as the plane shot high into the air really fast upwind and was almost uncontrolable downwind It was too windy and I wasn't reacting fast enough. Also, I kept trying to fly it like a 4 channel plane and was having a hard time making up for it's lack of response. I just kept saying to myself, "if it only had ailerons!".

On the way home, I kept looking at the back part of the wing trying to figure how to add them. After several raindy days of thinking about it, I grabbed a metal ruler, X-Acto knife, 1/2" pliers and wire cutters then measured, bent and cut. I removed 3 1/4 inches from the back of the wings to make for more traditional ailerons.

I put the original servos on the sides and two Turnigy 9-gram, metal gear servos on the wing, 3 inches in front of the previous location and took the cutout foam to seal the hole left from the original servo location.

 

The Results

Tail HEAVY!!! I've tried to balance it out but it means adding so much weight to the nose that the plane is alomst 50% heavier!

Unfortunately, the weather has been really bad here so I haven't had a chance to get it in the air to find out how it (bad) will fly.

So much for my novice engineering work! Still, it was a lot of fun and I can easily create a new one with better modifications.

At least, it's a start into a new adventure of building, flying and modifying.

 

Thanks!

Thanks to the Flight Test team. You guys are a blessing and your well produced videos make my day as I laugh at your antics. ... nice to watch after a long day at the office! Having co-owned a post-production company in the past, I know quality stuff when I see it.You guys rock!

Most of all, thanks for helping make the hobby fun, affordable & accessible to the masses!

Thanks to all the other followers who inspired me to attempt a mod in the first place.

 

 

 

COMMENTS

alibopo on December 1, 2013
Hi - interesting build! I like it. :)
Here's some initial reactions regarding weight and balance that could sort things very quickly - scrap the two rear servos operating the rudder and elevator - instead lead pushrods to the two servos you've got operating the ailerons. Then mount a single servo further forward (well beyond the CG) to operate the ailerons. (See this in the Baby Blender build and the FT Bloody Wonder. Your need for excessive weight forward will disappear and the total weight of your plane will drop significantly - all to do with 'moments'. See my article 'The triplets and the see-saw' to see how small weights magnify their effect due to the length they are from the balance point. Also these Right angle bends in the pushrods will 'spring' - losing you some of the servo motion and control. A little bending to lead the pushrods is fine, but this dog-legging will just introduce play. I've seen (and used) little vee bends in pushrods (used to adjust motion) but they are very compact and stiff. I can see this being a fun plane to fly system used once you get the kinks ironed out - best of luck!
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alibopo on December 1, 2013
Ooops! - where did those two extra words in the last line come from? It should read; I can see this being a fun plane to fly once you get the kinks ironed out - best of luck!
Cheers, alibopo.
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capt_ks on December 2, 2013
Thanks for the input! Unfortunately, my article didn't get posted until the day after I made some more modifications: I moved the wing back 2 inches by trimming the back section of the wing. This moved the CoG back like crazy and I flew the plane the same day this was posted. If flew great however, the wing folded like a butterfly after two flights and crashed. I'm really excited about the results.

Results: moving the wing solved the CG problem but I got the wing tilted too much so the ailerons helped keep it level at best. It was a priceless learning experience.
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alibopo on December 3, 2013
Yep - that's the other way to do it. :) I did that on my snub-nosed Velie Monocoupe to try and reduce the amount of balance weights I was using. I later moved the servos as far forward as I could manage and took some of the weight off. And yes, in the most recent build with that same wing, Morphocoupe Mk II, I extended the nose and got rid of even more weight. I still think moving the servos off the tail would have got you most of the way there. Anyway - that's the fun thing about foam board, its so easy to resurrect and alter a plane - even after a major wipe-out. That wing fold is probably easier to repair than you think - maybe at the same time you could stick-on a bracing piece - again see my article "Rejuvenating a weary FT Flyer" for how to stiffen the wing. It's not over until the fat lady sits on your plane!
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engineer on December 1, 2013
I like it! I really think the ailerons will help! I've built one Flyer and two other Flyer-based designs, and have always had the tail-heavy problem. Next version, I think I'll lengthen the nose a bit to help.
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alibopo on December 2, 2013
Or just shift the servos forward... probably an easier mod than extending the nose. Anything mounted behind the balance point 'CG' creates tail weight - those servos are easily re-sited and the control rods can be extended by binding on a little extra piano wire using thread and CA. Regarding ailerons - it's an interesting mod, but this plane doesn't need them due to the dihedral. Effectively it's self-righting! I use mine as a windy-day plane, but put on a nice big battery to help with penetration. But there are limits to what a small plane like this will manage - the kind of conditions described in the article would likely make mincemeat of the aileron version as well. At least on 3 channels the levelling is automatic.
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capt_ks on December 2, 2013
I agree that ailerons aren't necessary with this plane but I wanted something that would help me get more used to the nitro .40 size trainer at the club and 3-channels just don't help my brain. Perhaps a flat wing would make more sense?
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alibopo on December 3, 2013
Hi - the way your talking I'm wondering if you had the rudder plugged into the aileron channel when you were flying 3 channel? This is the accepted way to do it as rudder input on a 3 channel near-enough duplicates bank-and yank on a 4 channel. The mental shift from one to the other is usually pretty intuitive as the plane responds much the same way. The difference being 3 channel planes are self-righting due to dihedral, and on 4 channel you need to right them yourself - though a lot of 4 channel trainers have some self-righting properties too. Maybe the difficulty your talking about is 'proper' rudder turns. Some of these trainers need quite positive rudder input to get them to turn 'properly'. A great skill to master, but meantime there's an awful lot of flying fun to be had from 3 channel and bank-and-yank 4 channel planes. At this stage it sounds like you need time in the air to gain confidence rather than the all-out challenge of mastering every flying skill?
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capt_ks on December 2, 2013
Shifting the servos forward may be easier than moving the wing back like I did. I wish I had a photo of the final mod before the crash - perhaps the additional slots weakened the wing causing the butterfly fold and crash.
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alibopo on December 3, 2013
Any right-angle corner is a stress concentration point. You'd already introduced one when you built-in the ailerons. If you chopped material from the front of the wing you might have made a pair of stress points - which would provide the perfect hinge for your wing to collapse along :(
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sailorJohn on December 1, 2013
Tip ,always make a pattern of your foamies , before assembling so that you can easily duplicate your planes , it will give you more confidence when flying knowing that in a few hours you can be flying again.
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Mac50L on December 2, 2013
I built the equivalent earlier this year after building a number of Dart-XSs (which were the origin of the FT Flyer). What makes it easier and keeps excess weight down is to lengthen the nose by at least an inch using the weight of the motor to balance things. This then allows the battery to be mounted on the CoG so it doesn't matter if you change battery types and weights.

My servos are mounted in about the same positions as yours are and that's the same position on the 3 Ch version. On the 4 Ch, I cover the top servo with a canopy, makes things look much better. On one of the standard Darts the Rx is under the canopy.

I was out this afternoon and the battery fell out. It wasn't immediately obvious and the plane landed quite happily without my input.
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capt_ks on December 2, 2013
Cool. If I do another one and make it 4 channel, I'll make the wings flat because the dihedral makes the ailerons almost useless but still fun to try.
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alibopo on December 2, 2013
Last comments - I promise :) Having chopped-off the rear of the wing you have also shifted the centre of lift forward - which means the 'CG' finger balance point has shifted forward. I'd make a rough estimate of 10-15mm forward from the original CG. There's a way to calculate this for wing and tail planes, but given the shape of the wing I think a delta wing calculator will probably get you close enough - http://fwcg.3dzone.dk/ is one, and I saw a neat video showing how to use the calculator here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOWqvxxglmk
I'd also be interested in knowing exactly how heavy your Flyer has become - mine uses heavier foam board and comes-in at 445g with a 1000mah battery. It flies fine! See it here; http://www.flitetest.com/articles/don-t-let-heavy-foamboard-get-you-down
If you really are significantly over that weight then you do need to shift weight forward and my advice on servo location will fix that easily. Looking forward to the flight video!
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Mac50L on December 5, 2013
Not need to make the wings flat. A full size T-28 has a lot of dihedral, more than I have on my Darthawk. Watching them flying (full size) at Oshkosh I didn't see any problem with dihedral and aileron action. As far as wing position, CoG etc., I put the centre of the wing in about the normal place but had less chord due to the ailerons being wider at the tip and less at the root than the usual triangle that goes on the trailing edge.

My variants are here -

https://sites.google.com/site/kayakamf/rcplanes/dart-xs
https://sites.google.com/site/kayakamf/rcplanes/dart-xs/darthawk

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FT Flyer XP-4C