EDF FT Flyer

by rcspaceflight | October 3, 2013 | (7) Posted in Projects

Quick Intro:

I tried to keep the video self explanatory. Basically I built this because I bought an EDF and I wanted to start playing around and experimenting with it. I wanted to start with an existing airframe. I have also been wanting to build the FT Flyer for a while. I admit that this wasn't the best airframe to convert into an EDF. But I liked how easy to build it was. The plane is too inefficient to ever pick up speed. EDFs are known to take a while to pick up speed, but with the FT Flyer, it almost can't. This is actually a great beater plane because of it's durability, but it can be difficult to fly.

Video:

Pros and cons:

Because the EDF is two inches back into the fuselage, it is nearly impossible to damage it. Which means no broken propellers. I have nose dived plenty of times and I didn't have to make a single repair (except the velcro that holds on the battery kept coming off but that doesn't count). Not only does that make flying more enjoyable, it also makes it cheaper. Because this is the FT Flyer, it is easy to fly. A simple three channel plane. And it is easy to build.

Some of the down sides are that I have to hand launch it with a fast hand to get it started at the correct speed. If I had landing gear on it, it would either take a very long runway to get it going, or it might not get off the ground at all. Because it has such a difficult time gaining speed, if I lose too much and get it too close to the ground, I have no way to pull up, I have to land it. Sometimes I landed it with full throttle and didn't break anything, but that's a good thing. Long story short, this can be rather difficult to fly because it is under powered and the only way to fix that issue is to use a propeller instead of EDF.

Another downside is that I have to externally mount the electronics. Not only is it uglier as a result, but it also leaves the electronics open to damage.

In conclusion, this is a great beater plane. I can just take it out, have fun, and no need to worry about breaking it. It can be frustrating at times to get it going and to gain altitude. Which is why I'm weary about saying that this would be a great first plane. I will say that it's probably the cheapest way to get into the hobby. I did fly it with the $30 Tx from Hobby King. It's not really a bad thing that it has to be flown at full throttle, that just means one less control to worry about when flying. But if you decided to try this for yourself, just know that it is underpowered and the inability to gain altitude might not be your pilot skills. Maybe it would be good to start out with this plane, but then quickly build the original version once you're more comfortable with your ability.

Electronics used (and recommended):

EDF: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__22947__Hobbyking_50mm_Alloy_EDF_4800kv_3s_Version_.html

ESC: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6458__Hobbyking_SS_Series_25_30A_ESC_card_programmable_.html

Battery that I used: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18203__Turnigy_nano_tech_850mAh_3S_45_90C_Lipo_Pack.html

Recommended battery (because of weight/under powered issue): http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__33192__ZIPPY_Compact_500mAh_3S_35C_Lipo_Pack_USA_Warehouse_.html

*note: I recommended a battery from the USA warehouse at Hobby King because it's a bad idea to order batteries from the International warehouse. It'll slow down your order because the order might sit in customs for a while because of the LiPo batteries. (It's hard to get LiPos onto commercial planes.)

Photos of plane (taken before maiden):

Build pictures and some tips:

Here is the EDF that I used. I know it says "Dr. Mad Thrust" on it, but this is the one that I have a link to. Hobby King is weird and will update the product without updating the website. (The Dr. Mad Thrust brand has a 10 blade fan, this one has a 5 blade fan, just like the "Hobby King" brand that it's listed as on the website.)

The measurements I have written on the foam board is correct. The spaces between are 1/4". I did end up making the fuselage a little too big around the EDF, but it's close enough. If you decide to build a similar plane, either use my measurements (if using a 50mm EDF) or see if you can do better. I have the EDF about 2inches back. This left the weight forward enough to get proper CG, but has the EDF far back enough to avoid getting damaged.

I cut score lines into the fuselage so the lip of the EDF can bite into the foam to help hold it in place.

I did not glue the EDF in place because I didn't want to have to unglue it. Instead I used two bamboo skewers to stop the EDF from moving forward. I probably lost efficiency from doing this. Plus the motor eventually got looser and has a slight thrust angle. It's not noticeable because of the long tube the exhaust goes through, but again I'm probably losing efficiency.

After I had the fuselage done, I glued it directly to the wings. I don't have pictures of this because it's not different than the original FT Flyer. Except that I didn't use any tabs to hold it in place. I was going to glue it anyway and creating the tabs and then figuring out where to cut the slots into the wings seemed like a waste of time.

Other than modifying the fuselage to hold the EDF, I also had to modify the rudder. Those really are the only two modifications needed. I cut out the rudder according to the plans (probably a waste of foam board) and then held it in place with the elevator under the fuselage. Then I measured the gap so I knew how far to extend the rudder. It ended up being about two inches.

Here it is, almost done, but then I noticed a mistake.

I put the control horn on according to the original FT Flyer plans. Which doesn't work with my modified/bigger fuselage. Instead of redoing it, I decided to just put the servo right there. Of course this affect the CG and I had to have my battery all the way at the nose as a result.

I guess those are all of my pictures. I had to mount all of the electronics externally because I didn't want them in the way of the airflow of the EDF. I also want to quickly mention that the reason why I left the elevator on the bottom was so that the exhaust from the EDF will blow right onto the control surface when I pull up. Meaning that having throttle will help push down the tail, raising the nose. I also left the rudder in the way of the exhaust for the same reason. I'll have more control as a result. Although, I may be losing efficiency which might be part of my under powered problem.

The flying weight of this plane was originally 380grams which proved to be too heavy. It is flyable at that weight, but barely and it doesn't take much to lose the speed needed to keep it flying. That was with a 1300mah 3cell battery. With my 850mah 3cell I was able to bring the weight down to 340grams. But that was after I removed some foam board. I regret doing that because it looks bad and I didn't really lose any weight. I doubt the removed foam did anything aerodynamically.

Conclusion:

I don't really want to say that this is a great way to start off this hobby, but it is probably the cheapest. The EDF is $20. Yes a good motor is only $10 and another $10 can buy quite a few propellers. But lets be honest, a newbie is going to go through those $10 of props in no time. Plus it can get frustrating to keep repairing the aircraft. This can, hopefully, just be picked up and tossed again. Just be sure to toss it with some speed.

COMMENTS

rcspaceflight on October 3, 2013
Now that I think of it, I wonder if a ten blade EDF with a lower KV would be better at reaching it's top speed. This plane doesn't need to be fast and currently I can't get it as fast as it should be able to go. Just a thought incase anyone wants to try this. Or if you know more about EDF than I do. I would just buy a 10 blade with a lower KV if I currently had the money. (I know it's only $30, don't make fun of me because I'm poor.)
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uberjay on October 3, 2013
I think if you were able to run the fan unit / motor on a higher cell count you'd squeeze out more thrust. Also, _maybe_ adding some kind of flange and / or cone to the inlet and exit paths for the airflow would a) force more air through the fan unit and b) be more efficient.

As to your comment about making fun of you... I don't think there's anything to be made fun of here. I think it's great that you've experimented with what you had at hand and are having fun. Not only that, but you've tried to share your fun here. Keep it up! Great job!

Cheers,
J
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flight monkey on October 5, 2013
Not having the money to spend on a $7,000 EDF plane, is not something to make fun of. Most of the best Inventions come from necessity. It forces you to be more innovative. As a matter of fact I subscribed to your YouTube channel about a year ago, cause I really like some of your ideas, and things you've done. I learn more from experimenting, than anything else. Keep up the good work buddy !
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flight monkey on October 5, 2013
An EDF is the opposite to props concerning motor KV and thrust produced. An EDF needs higher KV to produce more thrust.( 3500kv and higher). Hope this helps.
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rcspaceflight on October 6, 2013
Good to know.
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PlaneButcher on October 20, 2013
buy a edf with high kv, if u need a good cheap edf buy a 70mm edf combo from hobbyparts.com I bougth two and both are great you can use a 4 or 5s batt, I had the combo on a phase 3 squall and pretty sure it went 80 mph unlimited vertical, weighed in at 780 grams. the max weight limit for it on 4s for anyplane is about 850 grams
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sailorJohn on October 3, 2013
Not pretty but pretty darn neat! good job!
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alibopo on October 3, 2013
Hi rcspaceflight, great build! Like the comment above from uberjay, I think you need some more ducting/direction of the airflow. In the first clip you still had foam sides running right back to near the end of the rudder, but the top was open. I was going to suggest you box that in, and also remove the lower part of the rudder that sits in the airstream - I don't think directional thrust is your friend here :) - I think it would be better to use the accelerated air to drive the whole airframe forward, and then let the forward movement acting on the rudder do the steering. Controlling the exiting air and getting it leaving the plane through a square-ended hole would help. In the first clip the air was 'escaping' out of the top of the duct running alongside the rudder and losing some of its ability to drive the plane forward. If I saw correctly, later in the video (2.01) you removed some of that foam - I'd be tempted to put it back, but put a lid on it. Also it looked like your dihedral was getting a bit 'mushy' - my FT flyer dihedral started to flatten out after a few good whacks into the ground. The loss of stability and slow speed control was very noticeable. I re-glued the centre join and then glued-on a couple of foam panels (about 4 inches x 4 inches with chamfered edges) across the top of the wing to get it back to the proper angle and stiffen up the wing. It made a BIG difference to the handling. Some of what you're experiencing looks just the same as my FT before I did the repair. I think this is definitely worth pursuing! Cheers, Alibopo.
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rcspaceflight on October 5, 2013
I actually maidened this when it was too windy out. The plane was pretty beat up by the time I recorded the video that I used in this video. I'm sure some of the slop in the wings is part of the problem. At first the plane seemed to fly a lot better even though I had a heavier battery on it. I assumed that the wind was helping me fly it, but maybe it's like what you said, that it was flying better at first because the wings where stiffer.
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Leo82 on October 3, 2013
That is good job. I wish i had cheap edf airframe instead of f18 which was underpowered and really low on static thrust.
Here you are testing flying with edf and can try different batteries without expensive foam pieces.
Keep up the smart work.
P.S. i put edf from crashed f18 to a gentle lady, that worked really nice and taught me a lot about keeping speed up for thrust.
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twan1997 on October 3, 2013
this is really creative and awesome however, extremely inefficient, because if you have flown the normal FT flyer design or the bludart, you probably know that this plane loves the high-alpha style of flying, which requires alot of static thrust which a small EDF unit doesnt have, this would however be a greaaaat Idea for the FT delta though, because that thing likes to fly faster which makes the EDF a whole lot more efficient :)
but hey , it flew ===> awesome no matter what, keeep up the great work :)
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rcspaceflight on October 5, 2013
Yeah, it wasn't the best airframe to test out EDF on.

I like your idea of building an EDF FT Delta so much that I'm going to do it!
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alibopo on October 7, 2013
Hi, my experience of the FT Flyer is it performs equally well at 'lower alpha' modes. In stronger winds I strap on a bigger battery and it flies faster and shallower - this is a really versatile design.
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Miracle Air on October 3, 2013
This is really inventive! This is one of those things where if it actually flies it's a screaming success. Well done!

How about Ed's Fugly Jet? Check it out at Experimental Airlines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0fG4wBq_80
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gmyers2112 on October 4, 2013
you will get better performance out of your EDF if you mount it closer to the exit end of the tube. Also, and this will seem trivial, but having the inside corner gaps in the square tube create eddys and drag around the airflow so you will want to fill those gaps.
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rcspaceflight on October 5, 2013
Thanks for the tips. I'm going to use twan1997's idea of building an EDF FT Delta next and I will use a very small box to house the EDF on top of the plane. Since I'll only make the box big enough to hold it to the plane, I think on top will be best to help protect it in crashes. (The FT Flyer needed it on the bottom to help the plane tilt back to level.) I think you're right about the exhaust tube being too long so I won't have one for the EDF FT Delta. I'll probably add a foam board ring to block the holes like you also suggested.
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alibopo on October 7, 2013
If you go back to the Flyer design - instead of a ring put in four long(ish) triangles - one in each corner - with the tips pointing forward. Kind of streamlining and shaping the inside of the tube and guiding the air into the centre.
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Smohl1971 on October 4, 2013
gmyers has it exactly correct. The farther your EDF is from the exhaust end of the tube your performance drops exponentially. The walls of the tube create a significant drag on the thrust leaving the EDF.
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StoneBlueAirlines on October 6, 2013
I have found the edf does better at the nose for some reason on the one crazy frankenjet i built up but cool idea.
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Gryf on October 10, 2013
What a cool idea! I agree with some of the comments above RE: mounting the EDF unit. It's sort of a round peg in a square hole, and the gaps around the fan are really messing with your efficiency. Ideally, you want to move ALL the air in a ducted fan, with no bypass. As it is, you've basically got an undersized propeller. If you could source a lightweight tube somewhere that's the same diameter as the fan, and use that for your fuselage, I'll bet you'd see a lot more thrust. But again, congrats on a cool build!

Gryf
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EDF FT Flyer