FPV Wing V3 - Blunt Nose Versa Wing

by Red20RC | April 12, 2014 | (13) Posted in Projects

It was with immense pride that I saw Red20RC mentioned in the Flite Test “Blunt Nose Versa Wing” episode. So it came as a bit of a shock when I decided to destroy the wing that started it all…

Why?

Let’s start by having a look at what I think was the final flight of the FPV Wing V2…


It was a great flight in less than perfect conditions but I had a few misgivings on reviewing the video.

  • My center section was never the largest and squeezing even an 1800mah battery into the cramped bay was a chore.
  • The GoPro mount wasn’t the best and the bottom of the camera was vulnerable on landings.
  • I’d put my smaller 250mw FPV Tx in the wing with a basic cloverleaf antenna and it didn’t cope too well when we got higher and further out.
  • Even with some colorful markings, it was difficult to tell which way was up!
  • I kept breaking the vertical stabilsers off.
  • There seemed to be a lot of instability in yaw. At times in the raw video footage the side-to-side wobble was quite pronounced.

So I decided that it was time to give the FliteTest Blunt Nose Versa Wing a go – with a few modifications of course.

Originally, I was going to just take the FPV gear out of my old wing but a couple of slashes with the box cutter and it was all over for the FPV Wing V2.

Blunt Nose Versa Wing

I’m not going to go into too many details about the build. The FT article and video are great and it really is only a Versa Wing with an extra bit in the middle.

I stuck to the plans pretty strictly for once, even keeping the tabs in the right places to see how it all worked. The new center section is a work of art. The FT guys have once again really thought this through and taken my, and other builder’s ideas and improved on them to the point of perfection.

I really liked the layout of the bays and the slightly larger area gave me enough room to fit my newly purchased 3600mah 3-cells in.

I did try to keep it neat by using my steel punches to keep the slots rounded and cutting access holes for the servos and other electronics. The build went quick, even with me trying to take my time!

FPV Wing V3

Modifications

In the end the build was so good that apart from some access holes the only change I made was to the vertical stabilisers.

I mentioned before that there was a definite wobble in the yaw axis especially at higher speeds. I think wings are always going to suffer from this to a certain extent as they just don’t have that nice long tail moment arm that produces a “weather vane” effect to keep them tracking nicely. On a wing therefore you are trying to achieve the same sort of effect as a skeg on a sailboat or surfboard. My feeling is that on previous wings the stabs are just too small to produce the desired effect so I decided to extend them upwards and see what happened. This modification would also serve a dual purpose as it will be easier to orientate the model if the stabs are not symmetrical.

The new vertical stabilisers are pure guesswork and to be honest they now look a little large! Time will tell…

Finishing Up

I used foam board from different suppliers on the wing panels and center section. It came as a bit of a surprise then that the foam in the center was noticeably thicker than that in the panels. This isn’t a major deal (and better that way around to be honest) but it did make joining the three major components a bit more of a hassle than it should have been.

The extra space in the center bays made getting all the gear in a doddle. My new Taranis Rx and ImmersionRC 600mw FPV Tx went out in the wings with the ESC in the center to keep everything apart.

Power this time comes from a Turnigy Park 450 motor turning a 10 inch folding prop. This in combination with the 3600mah 3-cell lipo is putting out around 350W at full throttle. Assuming (hopefully) that cruise is at around half throttle the draw is only 10A so that should give me a good 30 minutes before I need to come down.

FPV Wing 3

Following the FT build I put a plate under the camera and battery bay to strengthen the fixing points. I hate cutting ply at the best of times so I found that 3mm Correx plastic was an adequate replacement.

Balance is always an issue with wings but I reckoned that the new larger battery would help there. It came as a surprise then that it was still tail heavy and needed a little lead in the nose even with the battery wedged right up behind the GoPro. There is definitely an argument here for using a board camera next to the GoPro.

Let’s get straight to the video then!




So what do I think?

To be brutally honest, this is probably THE most PERFECT airframe I have ever flown – especially for FPV. The blunt nose versa wing is an awesome design. It is a nice manageable size but big enough to be stable and easy to fly.

It had a great range of speed with an excellent glide ratio. Turns were nice and smooth and, whether it was the oversized vertical stabilisers or not, there was no instability in yaw.

I seem to have stumbled upon the perfect power setup for this model with the Park 450, 10×4 folding prop and 3600mah. There was more than enough power for vertical performance but after 20 minutes of relaxed FPV cruising I had only taken 1400mah out of the battery. This is a fantastic result and makes 45 minute flights a reality for the future.

Conclusion

I’m actually glad I destroyed the V2 Wing now. I’m also glad the Flite Test chaps took my and others work and created the Blunt Nose Versa Wing.

If you are looking for a mid-size flying wing for starting out in FPV or long range cruising with the goggles on then you could do a lot worse than downloading the plans, getting yourself some foam board and start cutting…

What next for me then?

Well, there’s plenty more FPV to be flown. I want to experiment with some OpenLRS gear and I still have to find something to put an APM in and try some automated flights. I’m even thinking of moving 2 2200mah batteries out into the wings for even greater airtime.

COMMENTS

Pav on April 13, 2014
Great article! Im building the same and i got a 3530 1430kv. What kv is your motor?

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Red20RC on April 13, 2014
Thanks Pav,
My motor is the Park 450 1200kv. I should say however that with the combo of 3 cells and the 10x4 folding prop it is over-propped and is drawing too many amps at full throttle.

I would probably look in the future at the lower Kv motor to bring the amps down at the cost of a bit of thrust (which I don't need anyway).
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Pav on April 13, 2014
thank you for replying, i will let you know about my setup when i test it
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johninoz2 on April 13, 2014
Looks great mate! Definitely want to build one now. A few questions, if I may, so I can replicate your power set-up:
What brand and source for the 10x4 folding prop and hub?
What kv is the Park 450---890, 1050 or 1200 kv?
Finally, is the battery a Turnigy 3600mAh 3S 30C Lipo?
Cheers, JC
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Red20RC on April 13, 2014
Thanks JC! Everything came out of HobbyKing so:

- The prop is the most basic one they had and is a 10x8, not a 10x4 like I keep telling people! (http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=13144)
- The motor is the Park 450 1200kv (http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=19036)
- The battery is a Turnigy 3600mah 30C (http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14646)

Now, the problem with my awesome setup is that 10x8 prop is too much for the Park 450 and the amps at full throttle are too much for the motor really (around 28A static). If it was the 10x4 then things would probably be better. As a result I am having to clip the throttle to ensure I don't burn things out.

Hope this helps.
Mike
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Redazrael on April 13, 2014
VERY Excellent article! I printed the plans off for the Versa quite some time ago, and I do believe you have inadvertently convinced me to park my FT-22's for awhile and get to building and foolin' around with it. Thanks for the motivation, and of course ALL your contributions to the hobby. In my opinion you deserve to be mentioned by Flite Test. Keep up the good work!!!
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Red20RC on April 13, 2014
:-) Good luck - wings are awesome (although I think I may build an F22 shortly as they are pretty great too!)
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Redazrael on April 13, 2014
YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY play around with the Flite Test FT-22!!! I am telling you i have just had a blast with the design and much like you and your versa, I have tweaked and modified the FT-22 into 4 different setups from the as recommended in the review and build videos up to a 64mm EDF version completely taped up and weather (and night time) proof! They just never get old and they really get a lot of attention where i fly
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sailorJohn on April 13, 2014
The information on the plane is great , I would liked to see video of the plane in flight. Versa wings are a blast to fly with a 2200kv motor.
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Red20RC on April 13, 2014
Thanks!
The V2 wing had a 2200kv motor in it and it did go well. Many years ago I had a Zagi that I electrified with a 4000kv motor - that thing went like a rocket!
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Paulshort on April 13, 2014
I am hopefully going to build one. I have just bought the teleporter v3.
I currently have the power setup mout of a crashed radian do you think that that would work?
Thanks

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Red20RC on April 14, 2014
If I'm right then the Radian sports a 480 size 950kv motor and 30A ESC.
To be honest this is a little on the large size for a Versa although the blunt nose versa could probably handle it.
I would match that up with the same 10x8 folding prop I am using and it will have bags of power and cruise on a very low throttle setting.
The only down side will be the 480 is pretty heavy and you will need a lot of weight up front to balance it out.
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Paulshort on April 15, 2014
can i use the same prop as the radian i think its a 9x6 folding prop but i can reverse it
also what range can i expect from the teleporter 3
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Red20RC on April 15, 2014
Given the fact that the prop from the Radian will have been selected to match the motor etc. then you can't really go wrong using the same setup - the guesswork has been done for you.
With FPV setups I am nowhere near an expert! With range it is always a case of money + technology = range & quality. The Teleporter comes with the FatShark 250mw transmitter which will be the same one that came with my Attitude SD set. With the basic whip antenna you won't get much range at all and the picture will skip and flicker all over the place - maybe 400 to 500 meters tops.
Your first upgrade in FPV should always be some cloverleaf or Spironet antennas. I use both and don't have a problem with either. I used a 250mw setup with a cloverleaf on the Tx and Spironet on the Goggles with the V2 wing and even then the picture was breaking up whilst we were still in line of sight.
This wing has the ImmersionRC 600mw Tx and Spironets all round. This time the picture was solid throughout the maiden flight. The only interference I got at all was when I flew directly overhead.
Then of course you have to look at environment. We have big powerlines nearby so they may cause interference. Are you going to fly low into trees, valleys, behind mountains etc? All this plays a part.

Of course, when you become really hooked then you can start thinking about ground stations, external receivers, diversity setups, antenna trackers - the list goes on!
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Paulshort on April 15, 2014
Do you think that it is worth buying a huge battery to balance it or just add lead
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Red20RC on April 15, 2014
If you have room for a bigger battery then fit that. Far better to have the extra amps for flying than have to use extra amps to cart around a nose full of lead shot.
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Holski77 on April 17, 2014
Great review, I will either sweep the wings more or make one with a larger wing span. I don't have a GoPro, or a battery larger than a 2000mah; so I will need to something to bring the center of pressure back, because I can't get the center of gravity that far forward with my equipment :( Would love a 5000mah 3 cell and a go pro lolz.
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Red20RC on April 17, 2014
You could always make one a little bit smaller! Or go for something with a KFm airfoil...
Just thinking aloud but another idea I saw on a blunt nose versa from way back (long before mine) was if you have 2 batteries of the same size (e.g. x2 1800mah) then put them into the leading edges of the wing either side of the center section.
This way you get the equivalent of the larger battery and you can also get your other gear way forward in the nose to balance it out.
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Andy2166 on May 6, 2014
So if you could go back in time would you use your motor and a smaller prop? Or the 480 with your prop? For the best balance of power and endurance what should I go with for my gopro fpv versa?
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Red20RC on May 6, 2014
Hmmm, the million dollar question?
Not really though. I have a 480 and used it in a previous project. Bags of power but I reckon way too heavy for the BNVersa. You'd end up putting so much weight in the nose just to balance it out.
I would still use the 450 but either one with a lower KV so I could still swing the 10x8 folding prop or go smaller on the prop. Maybe a 10x4 or 10x6 would be okay. Maybe even a 9x6.

What I did in the end was set the "travel" on the Taranis so I can only use a max of 80% throttle. That way I can be sure I never try to force it too hard.
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Andy2166 on May 6, 2014
Would you go as low as the 890 with that prop or the 1050?
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Red20RC on May 6, 2014
If I had to chose between the two if go with the 1050 and limit the throttle if it was still to much.
That's probably a bad thing to say but what I really wanted in this airframe was a cruiser so a bigger prop with a smaller pitch makes sense to me.
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Andy2166 on May 6, 2014
Sorry I ask so many questions lol ...but I hate to reinvent the wheel when there's people who have tried all these things already.
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Red20RC on May 6, 2014
Not a problem. Keep asking questions! I wish I had when I first started as I would have saved a lot of time and effort (and cash).
People who don't ask questions are the ones I see daily on Twitter crashing their RTF DJI Phantoms into buildings, trees, cars, people etc and giving us all a bad name 😤
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11-Nov-11 on June 29, 2014
It's great! I like this one.
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Andre Meyer on October 20, 2014
Great plane and I agree with you on those longer vertical stabilizers. I built my first wing with similar stabilizers like yours just because I did not like the look of the FT ones and I will always do the same. I have just built a new one after wrecking my first wing but would like to ask you if you had any issues on balancing the plane. I am not using it for FPV yet and find that I need allot of weight in the nose even with a 2200Mah battery. Did you find the same issue or did the GOPRO help in the balancing.
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Red20RC on October 20, 2014
Thanks Andre!

I do like the "bunny ear" stabilizers but I found them to have pros and cons. On the plus side they do reduce the yaw "waggle" you get on wings and notice on flight footage. On the downside they do make the wing more susceptible to crosswinds.

I actually dismantled this wing recently to use the gear in something else and now I am sad that I did. I'm going to put another one together really soon as they are just too good.

With the balance, they have a fairly small sweep compared to other wings (around 30 degrees compared to 35-37 on some wings) so the balance point is quite far forward. As a result you need a lot of weight in the nose. I had a 4000mah 3S in mine and a GoPro and I think I still needed weight to balance it out.
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Andre Meyer on October 22, 2014
You are correct. There is just something about these wings that works great. I know exactly what your talking about with cross winds. My Friend was very impressed that I could do a hammer Head turn without a rudder but I used the wind to turn the plane. Was tricky thou.

I am using a 2200Mah and no fpv so no wonder it takes allot of weight. Busy melting some lead to weigh down the nose. On the other hand I used a bluntnose wing CG calculator and my CG is about a cm behind the point where the plans show them.

I will try this point and find that if the plane proves to be tail heavy I will revert back to the plans.

Thanks for your reply.


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cwy81 on April 19, 2015
Is anyone else having a problem with the wing being crazily tail heavy. I have a ntm prop drive 28-26 1200kv motor pushed as far forward as the prop would allow and even with two 2200 mah batteries in the nose it is still tail heavy
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Red20RC on April 19, 2015
Thanks for the comment!
The BN Versa does suffer from being tail heavy. The problem I think comes from the fact it has only got a 30 degree sweep, whereas a lot of wings tend to be in the 32-37 degree range.
I found that the only way I could balance it was with plenty of battery and a GoPro in the nose. Even then I think I needed some extra weight.
In my latest versions I've CNC cut a mounting box for the FPV cam and GoPro in G10. The protection is worthwhile and the added weight of the G10 helps to balance it out!

Cheers,
Mike
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Innovative R/C on June 13, 2016
I might be a little late, but I'm planning on building a blunt nose versa wing for fpv. I will use a 1100kv brushless outrunner, a 40 amp esc, and a 4000mah 3s lipo. What do you think? I would love an outside opinion.
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Red20RC on June 13, 2016
That sounds about right! As long as your motor has enough "grunt" then you should get good flight times from that setup. Just make sure you have something like a Park 450 or slightly larger ( a 28xx or 32xx size motor). I'm using the Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 motors more and more these days for wings as they are nicely made and run well.
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RAJMUNNI HOMBAL on August 29, 2016
how the wing plates sizing is done with respect to wing please help
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Red20RC on August 29, 2016
They were completely sized by eye so I'm afraid I can't give you any more info. However, more recent builds suggest that it is better to have longer winglets rather than taller as this improves yaw stability.
Have a look at http://red20rc.org/katana-x-kfm6-fpv-wing/ for more info.
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FPV Wing V3 - Blunt Nose Versa Wing